Quote from jakeeatworld :

Going back to what this thread is about:

HAHAHAHAAH your going to hate Rockinghams curbs mate!!!!

http://www.lfs.net/page_images/screenshots/ROK_FBM7.jpg

Formula one cars had very little trouble with such curbs at Monza. There are some nice replays of F1 cars going airborne because of those curbs and race happily after it without loss of time.

I jus fear, in the world of lfs this will be impossible and anyone who complains about it, will be told the world has to be according to lfs and should change like how things are programmed in lfs (sorry bit frustration about the past, everytime i said the tire-physics were not right...)

Quote from Bob Smith :

Road normals were never used online until road supers were remove from some cars. Allowing slicks would mean road tyres were never used online, even if servers could force restrictions. Which wastes the point of the development time put into road tyres and setups.

I think it is actually a load of crap to not have at least road-supers on a race-car.
What would you fit on your car if you go and race with it??

Actually today i replaced normal "high performance" road tires under my real car and got road supers on it. Muchhhhhhh better in dry AND wet weather, however the catch is the available grip in snowy conditions.
But in the dry and wet handling is also much, because the sidewalls are much stiffer, stiffer then the normal and super road tires in lfs. But the threads of my tires are actually very, very simular to the road supers of lfs.

So i think is it is very unrealistic NOT to have road supers available for any car suitable for public roads.

little illustration of how different grip can be between tires:
Some years ago i got hit bij a seat leon (build around 2002) from behind because i had literally less than half the braking distance of the car behind. That car had 2 months old regular tires from a well known french brand on his car... That bad are regular road tires.

Quote from Dalek0220 :

LFS's BMW Sauber is quite really the best. It's difficult to drive -- just like the real thing. With the TC off it's a beast, I can barely just accelerate away.

Problem being it doesn't have all the features the 2006 specification has.

The lfs modeling of grip is not 100% correct, especially the bf1 has more grip irl!

Quote from fireb0llch :

ok nvm, I reinstalled and installed Vista Ultimate 64 Bit. Dont have any problems now.

I dont want to be very annoying, but reinstalling a operating system is usually not a proper way to solve problems. Or do you know what went wrong?

btw: I am using vista sinds oktober 2007, zero problems ever with lfs or any other game.

I did have a simular problem, turned out to be the very new shiny cable supplied by the cable-compagny was defecticive causing link-downs on the router/cablemodem. Always after about 40-50 minutes. Using an old crap cable solved the problem.

I agree!!

that would be a nice new option.

Quote from dadge :

maybe they're like that to stop people cutting corners. seen the curbs at monza?

Yes i did, The 15cm high rubber edges didn't stop some drivers to drive full over it now and then.

Guess real cars are stronger then lfs makes you believe

Quote from tristancliffe :

I can't think of a Formula car with a fuel light...

No they might not have one, they do have a big crew of engineers checking every detail of the car, fuel -load, oil tempature, oil pressure, coolant temperature. Also, except for amateur series, full assistence in setting up the car, calculating what the dempers should be, calculating exactly what the wing settings must be, ride height brake-balance, etc.

Also those nice lcd-display's are able to display error-messages such as low-fuel, too high or too low tempatures anything the engineers have programmed into it.

gt-cars sometimes do have fuel light indicators and big ones too AND a pit-crew also watching the same thing..

We have none of that in lfs, so fuel low light indicator or a simulated pit-crew telling you are running low on fuel whatever doesn't strike me as being unrealistic even for a formula-series car.

I won't be able to participate today. There have been some interference with what people call IRL^^ Happy Racing and Good Luck to all!!

"There should be adjustable and more realistic traction control"

Agree! but already suggested 93482594 times before, the tc in lfs currently only limits slip. Good tc-systems irl are a lot better then that, so much better you can put your foot down to the metal eh carbon-fiber on any corner-exit and you will never oversteer with a really good tc-system.

I ike the idea!! Of wr without tc!!
I am expecting a lot of the new tire-physics, since the bf1 is right now more diffecicult on corner exit then real f1 cars. They had then and now a lot more grip on corner exit then in lfs. In F1 they floor it in just over 110-130km/h while still exiting the corner, don' t try that in lfs lol

All options have already indeed been suggested, but this one:

"6.Light on board when you running on low fuel Most race cars don't even have a fuel gauge"

But MANY race-cars DO have one, so it will make it lfs better if cars in lfs would have a fuel light too. Only for example the mrt5 probably wouldn't have a fuel light indicater(just guessing)
formula cars, gt-racing cars, road-cars, al have fuel light indicators or at leas a fuel light indicator.

I already post a long time ago a link to a movie which showed a example of spyker GT2R car which has a very, very big low-fuellight indicator.

If it was built like that into lfs, people would be shouting it is unrealistic!

Quote from Costas Athan :

Well as I already wrote (#43) I expect from a simulator the right behavior. If that means a broken suspension which would lead to a retirement it's OK.

Although, even with a bended suspension you can drive the car very fast. Watch this replay --> http://www.filedropper.com/steering and notice that in some straights I don't full throttle because I gave up the effort for a better position. And even without pushing the car I can steel do 1:22. Notice also how much I should steer in order to keep the car in a straight line, in order to understand how damaged the suspension is.

edit: I forgot to write it...

I don't know if the curb is 20 cm high (it's difficult to estimate its height and I don't know if there is a way to measure it) but if it is so high it must be redesigned. Curbs aren't there to cause accidents...

I am sorry i have to disappoint you, there is no such thing as a perfect simulation Also, what exactly happens when you destroy your car, is not very interesting for a simulation; you're out of race, if the wheel came off, you flipped over of got launched to the moon.. so what..
The curb in itself is ok, i never,ever flipped my car and i did .. many, many many(!) laps at bl gp. Just don't steer in too early and if you do, evade that inside curb! irl there are tracks too where you just cannot drive onto the innerside curb because its too high.

It is indeed possible to do a 1:22 with bent suspension, that is about 10 seconds slower then wr time. I will be worried if you can do 1:14 or better with seriously damaged car.

Quote from Costas Athan :

Are you sure you watched the replays?

Because I consider 100 kph as a slow speed for a one seater, slow enough to prevent rollovers. (In fact slow enough to prevent many kinds of racing accidents).

Did you watch the two wheels drive? I don't think Formula BMW is an ordinary car for that kind of stunts. Actually open wheelers aren't good for stunts at all. Stunt cars are specially tuned.

And in the case of the uphill turn I didn't make the perfect entry, but I have seen worse in racing and in most cases cars ending up out of the road with wheels facing down.

100kph is not that fast, but hitting head on into a concrete wall is also for a single seater seriously fast. The chassis will be broken and the entire car will have to be rebuild..and everybody who isn't in serious good condition will stay in hospital for some time.

I seems you don't want to hear it, you drive up a steep and 15cm-20cm high curb at 100+ km/h and complain something happens that makes it impossible to continue race. It does not matter if the wheel should have broken off or flip the over. You are out of race, that is realistic. Since formula cars are very,very strong, irl the suspension would bent slightly making the car so bad to drive you have to retire from race. And in this case, with the giving angles, g-loads and steering input irl you might also flipped over the car.

If you buy lfs and start racing the hot gtr hatchbacks, it will be a lot worse, you can flip those over low curbs, and they do that irl life too

Quote from Costas Athan :

Well I don't think it is easy to make a one seater fly... And surely it shouldn't happen in my case. Watch the replay and make your judgment.

Irl singe seaters are bouncing over the curbs, inside wheels driving full over inside. In lfs this would mean total loss of grip.

Single seaters do not fly often, but i remember a picture of Jos Verstappen in a a1gp car going over a hill resulting in all four wheels in the air Doing just a regular lap.

http://www.verstappen.nl/column/12.html


However you are really driving up a very steep curb, which does have an effect you might rol over espacially if you don' t counter steer like you did.

The second mpr, the two wheel driving on lap 5 is indeed a bug, i agree.

Now in lfs many fast setups are so soft, it would make a formula cars suitable for public road use. The cars lean much more over in corners then irl, this is very noticable when viewing the load on the tires; way too big weight transfers/camber changes in corners due to very soft suspension settings. Also making it rewarding to drive ultra-high tire pressure and huge negative camber settings. Cause of this is, is the well known defects in the tire-moddeling of lfs.

So maybe wait for the next tire-physics update, if tires behave a lot more realistic it most likely more rewarding to have a as low-as-possible-ride height and much stiffer suspension-settings and also to drive with a lot less camber and have realistic tyre-pressure levels. (i hope, i wish.. i am dreaming off... )

Quote from stry90dis :

Sidequestion, IRL F1, why do they have so many gears if you'll have wheelspin in 2nd/3rd gear? To save the clutch?

Irl the tires are better then we get in LFS Irl F1 drivers apply a lot of throttle at rather slow speeds(2nd/3rd gear) in lfs it is bit too much on/off.. no power dam slow... just a bit more power crash!

Although i still like the bf1 most driving without tc, i just think it is just a bit too demanding in lfs on corner exit. F1 tyres have great grip! In straight line, the go full throttle in 2nd gear, in 1st they already go way over 100km/h

Other reason they have so many gears, the penalty for changing gear is very low, a gear changes takes less then 0,10 sec and some reports say gearshifts takes less then 0,04 sec.
This site: http://www.f1network.net/main/s107/st97040.htm claims gearshifts takes 25-30 milliseconds (0,025 - 0,030 seconds)
In 2007 seamless-shif boxes were introduced, meaning no power is lost while shifting.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Tue 25 Aug 2009, 20:26.

Quote from SidiousX :

You can adjust the traction control, you just have to do it in the pits.

In F1 they could adjust all those settings while ont rack, that was the point he was making.

I am against boost, Formula one didn't have it in 2006 and also the kers system is only populair at the enviromental terrorists. It doesn't work well. Years ago it was tried in city busses, they stopped quickly with that, the added mass and production costs was not worth it. I wont be surprised if kers will be banned next season for being so useless.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sat 29 Aug 2009, 22:57. Reason : typo

Quote from Darkone55 :

Well.. Although this turn is cambered, the BF1 still does over 6 G. That's just too much. In other fast turns it easily does over 5 G.

According to this page real f1 cars corners faster at low speed then the ones of lfs and at high speed consistent 6g is indeed on he high side but by just a little.

Many other sources claime F1 cars will generate 5g's consistently on any fast corner during entire races..

I did some test few minutes ago, got as national set, some extra wing to get more grip, put on r2 tires to get realistic grip levels. I did not exceed 5g, only peaked once over it. In the slow corners maximum lateral forces were on the low side compared to some sources.
Also tested at as-grand prix i did manage to get it to peak at 6.5g's for a very brief moment, in the fast left hander which is also banked and then immediately dropping back to 4.5 - 5 g's max.

Can you post the replay showing consistent 6g through a long corner?

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Thu 27 Aug 2009, 22:10. Reason : typos

Quote from deggis :

I have also always thought that getting the tyres right would really change the experience more than new content or other most often requested features.

_

Agree 1000%!! The current tire physics have driven me nuts several times.

Now i find myself checking everyday to see it the new patch is released.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Of course track day or slick tyres will increasing lateral acceleration a lot. Just look at the two entries for the Elise. I spent a few hours compling that list, I'd happily add more to it if people can serve up links to reputable sources.


I never said the list was complete!


Well the Stradale is practically a racecar so that's expected.

Also please bear in mind that what you can achieve on a racetrack is more than on a flat skidpan result. The point of skidpan testing (I thought) was to level the playing field (almost literally, even mildly cambered bends permit a substanial increasing in lateral acceleration), remove the chance of short lived transients influencing the results, and to have an easily comparable benchmark between cars.

Anyway, give me links to figures or more sites to wade through and I'll expand my list.

Just find as many sources as possible with actual measurements and try to figure out what kind of car they are driving. For example 900-1000kg lmp cars are pulling 4.5g' s in fast corners, which makes the 4.5g maximum of the bf1 in lfs rather look ok.

Some nearly standard big bmw m5 saloon pulling 1.3g at nordschleife

A (modified)350z pulling 1.2g' s on a damp track,the 350z will do stock maybe 1.0 max. but that is with stock suspension which also makes it easy to go over speed bumps at nice speeds on public roads. With race-type suspension this 1500 kg car is just great despite it huge weight. However if nissan would sell the car with race-suspension fitted, nobody would buy the car because it is hardly usable on public roads. So by just upgrading the stock suspension(if done well) and fitting better tires, grip increases big time. Sometimes fitting a modest rear wing give also serious improvements to neutralize any generated lift at high speeds.

What are we racing at lfs, exactly that, cars with suspension totally replaced by racing components and setup for only one thing, race track!
And supposedly we will not be using any high performance tire from just any manufacturer, but use the best there is.

That' s why, for example, i think the the maximum of about 1.2g's for xrg is very correct.

Quote from iFastLT :

that was movie, man, also maybe it was cobra 11?

No, real flip in real live, not movie lol

I couldnt find the one i ment, but did get this one, nice flip over from apperently touching inner side curb, just as what happens if you do that in lfs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF1kaiuN4v0

While searching i saw some big flips and flying cars, the crashes in lfs now looks suddenly a lot better to me, cars can get airborne and jump and fly all over the place

A demonstration on how incredibly strong suspensions are nowadays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9JTAhpDiDY

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sat 22 Aug 2009, 22:46.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Is that question aimed at me or another Bob? I'm not aware of what issues you are referring to?


:jester:


Aha, now I understand your other comment. You are living in the future. Welcome to the present: http://www.vehicle-analyser.com/skidpan_results.PNG

maybe take a look at nowadays measurements! instead of theoretical limits of some analyser/website who claimes to have correct figures. Before i posted i dubbel checked the g-loads before posting it. With custom suspension and proper tires(stock tires are rarely any good at all) many cars perform a lot better then stock.

Quote from L@gger :

it will be harder to make 2 side wheels stunts or not?

Real hothatches also tent to be easily flipped, some time ago i saw a real movie of sedan takeoff flipping into the air over a minor bush.... It does really happen irl :-)

Great to see we can expect serious improvements in lfs in hopefully short time(less then a month i hope???..)

I hope the weird soapy handling on change of direction will be a lot better then it is now.

I'm only not sure about less grip of tyres, 1500kg roadcars nowadays pull well over 1G. Well not with stock suspension but in essence big heavy roadgoing sportscars with upgraded suspension, very limited downforce and not on slick tires. Also the lmp1 one cars are pulling about 4.5g' s on fast corners, which is for the bf1 more ore less the maximum in lfs...all suggests grip levels in lfs are not too high, well sideways at least..

I think the current grip in lfs is actually rather good, but the tyres handling/responses and heat generating problems needed addressing.

But it all looks it will be a lot better drive in lfs in a very short time

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sat 22 Aug 2009, 22:12.

Quote from XCNuse :

That is a LOOOOT of work, but imo it needs to be done.

All tracks should be as bump some of the worst places of SO, that's why I like South City because it has a more realistic feel, it's more organic feeling, sometimes its actually to smooth, I know the really short SO track gets really bump in the XFGTR and it gets to be lots of fun!

Why? irl road surface is sometimes very VERY smooth while others ae indeed very bumpy. What i mean is, NOT all tracks should be bumpy.